Bob Woodward at the 2021 Audi Innovation Series at The Ritz Carlton on November 10, 2021 in Washington, DC.
Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images for Audi Canada
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Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images for Audi Canada
Bob Woodward at the 2021 Audi Innovation Series at The Ritz Carlton on November 10, 2021 in Washington, DC.
Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images for Audi Canada
Legendary journalist Bob Woodward’s new book War, like so many of his books about the American presidency over the last half century, is generating headlines.
There’s the one about the Covid test machine then President Donald Trump sent Russian President Vladimir Putin in the early days of the pandemic, or the seven secret phone calls Trump had with Putin after he left office. There’s also the detail that Secretary of State Antony Blinken nudged President Joe Biden toward his decision to drop out of the race after the debate in June. Who can forget the colorful language Biden is reported to have used in reference to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu?
But according to Woodward, there’s much more to the book than just what the headlines are picking up.
Take for example, how the Biden administration dealt with the Ukraine war before Russia invaded, and the proactive steps that President Biden and his administration took to declassify intelligence and to confront Russia in public.
“They wanted to stop it, of course,” Woodward told NPR host Scott Detrow.
“But what’s very significant in terms of foreign policy momentum, [is that] the intelligence is so good. I mean, at one point they have a human source in the Kremlin, electronic and other intelligence. So they are, as I write, it’s like being in the enemy tent. And this unfolds with much less ambiguity than normal. You see them working out, is somebody going to start a war?”
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Biden’s handle on wars and nuclear threats.
As the threat of war of nuclear weaponry became evident in the early days of the Ukraine war, Woodward’s reporting paints a picture of a Biden administration that was treating the nuclear threat as a very real possibility.
He details a call between a U.S. and a Russian official that urges the Russian government to show restraint with their weaponry in Ukraine, at the risk of the U.S. using weaponry that could take the conflict to a new level.
This is tempered with President Biden saying in meetings the United States would not respond with nuclear weapons.
“Anyone in that decision making world knows that it’s central to prevent [nuclear weapon use] and stop it and not just the United States or Russia, but the world. This becomes a world changing issue as discussed here. And so they pull out all the stops. But there is always the contradiction of Joe Biden. ‘Oh, let’s work it out, let’s not have a confrontation with a very direct confrontational approach, as is outlined in this call. I was very surprised to see the [how serious the threat was, and how confrontational the administration was in their approach.]
Then of course, there is the Israel-Hamas war that has marked Biden’s presidency.
Woodward describes the period surrounding the Hamas attack,and how Biden had been attempting to handle his relationship with Netanyahu.
“We’re in October 11th, and this is Netanyahu at his most, ‘Hey, we’re going to solve this problem. Preemptive strike.’ Biden and the White House and the national security team, this is the last thing they want. And I have the direct dialogue, the persuasive efforts, [saying] ‘No, you can’t do this. Don’t do this. It won’t work.’ And Netanyahu’s very much Netanyahu. ‘I’m going to make my own decision and I’ll take into my advice what you say. But I decide.'”
Woodward describes it as one of those moments where “Biden and the White House and the national security team realize they have some influence, but very limited influence. And Netanyahu marches to his own drum. I think the book shows that vividly.”
The threat of Trump.
Former President Trump is a figure throughout this book, as Woodwad traces his presidency in exile, and the way that he starts to regain momentum and re-establish himself on the national stage and run for president again.
“My conclusion, and I think it shows it in the book, is that Trump doesn’t really understand the presidency, does not understand its full obligations and opportunities, and he continually misses the boat and the scenes,” Woodward said.
“His big supporter, Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican senator who tries to talk Trump off the ledge, if you will, and at one point says to him, ‘The people who think the earth is flat, the people who think we didn’t go to the moon, you’ve got those people.’ And Trump keeps talking. And I think what’s disorienting, even to Trump’s own supporters, is this idea that he really won in 2020, and he can’t get away from that.”
Woodward quotes Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser for Biden, saying that if Trump had been president, Putin would be in Kyiv now.
“Why? Because Trump, who loves dictators and the unity of power in one person, would have waved Putin right into Kyiv. There would have been no pushback. Why? Trump loves dictators.”
This episode was produced by Avery Keatley and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.