ANNE BOGEL: If you could see my notebooks of jotting down like my first draft of the 60 titles that I absolutely loved in 2024 and want to share with you. It’s a little ridiculous, but I hope a good kind of ridiculous.
Hey readers, I’m Anne Bogel and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that’s dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next?
Friends, we have a special episode today. My husband Will Bogel is joining me to talk about my best books of the year. Every week we take a personal approach to the reading life, really digging into what readers love, what they don’t, and why. And today I get to talk about what I love and why, and I’m really excited to dig in.
[00:00:57] This will be our third year with Will joining me. More about that in a moment. But first, we want to tell you about our Spring Book Preview coming up later this month on January 16th. Our seasonal previews are our marquee events for our Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club members and our What Should I Read Next Patreon community members.
Spring Book Preview, which covers January to the middle of April, includes a whole bunch of titles I’ve read and those I’m most excited about this season. And I’ve already read so many. They are so good. This is a great season.
At this event, you’ll get a sneak peek at the books everyone will be talking about in the early months of the year, and also those books that might not land on your radar without events like this.
Our Spring Book Preview comes with a digital booklet, and this year we’re doing what we did in the fall. We’re bringing back our printed booklet too, which you can order online. That’s an additional option you can choose if you’d like to.
We’d love to have you join us for our live event book party. Also, if you’re on the fence, events like these help us keep the lights on at Modern Mrs. Darcy and What Should I Read Next? HQ. So thank you to those who attend, whether that’s by joining one of our communities or opting for the a la carte option, which is always very popular. Your support really means that we can do our work, and we’re so grateful.
[00:02:12] It’s happening Thursday, January 16th at 8.30 p.m. Eastern time. Of course, we’ll have the replay available if you’re unable to join us live. But we’d love for you to join us. Sign up at ModernMrsDarcy.com/SBP for Spring Book Preview. That’s ModernMrsDarcy.com/SBP.
Now for today’s episode. William, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining me for third, dare we say, annual Best Books?
WILL BOGEL: That’s right. Thank you for having me back. Yeah, I’ve been on a number of times, but I think this is the third time that we have done Best Books together. I think it is now an annual tradition. Modern Mrs. Darcy, we have a lot of things that we talk about. If we do it a second time, does it become… like how quickly would you use the word “annual”? Because we don’t want to promise that, like, we tried something once, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be back the next year. But yeah, this is the third time, so I think this might be a tradition.
ANNE: Yeah, and it’s not something that we did for many years. The podcast started almost exactly nine years ago, which blows my mind. But for many years, this isn’t the kind of thing I would even have considered doing. I just thought, What Should I Read Next? is about every individual reader and their individual taste, and what does it matter what I love?
[00:03:28] But I was finally persuaded that as the voice of this podcast, and as someone who, of course, doesn’t do this work in a vacuum, like I bring my own reading life to my work every single day, and it’s probably better when I do. But I want to be real upfront about this is my taste. It’s not better or worse. It’s just different. So I really want to share what I love and why I love it, because the “what” is pretty meaningless without the “why”.
But I’m excited to do this. I’m excited that readers really enjoy it. I mean, even though… if it does lead to some… If you could see my notebooks of jotting down my first draft of the 60 titles that I absolutely loved in 2024 and want to share with you, it’s a little ridiculous, but I hope a good kind of ridiculous.
WILL: Do you have some issues with superlatives?
[00:04:23] ANNE: I do. I do. Superlatives are hard. And something that I tell myself and our What Should I Read Next? guests all the time, to make us all feel better, hopefully, is that if these questions about which books you enjoyed most isn’t hard, then maybe this isn’t the right podcast for you.
And also, well, what I tell everyone on What Should I Read Next? when a reader brings three books they love, one book they don’t, and what they’ve been reading lately, it’s just three books you love, not your three lifetime ranked favorites in order. You love many books. I’m just asking you to share three.
And while on this episode we are talking about best books, I’ve already shared 12 print favorites, 12 audio favorites. Those are on the blog. I already shared my Minimalist Summer Reading Guide, which has definite superlatives that I love and adore and stand by.
This episode we’re doing today is a companion to those posts. It’s definitely not a replacement. And it’s an opportunity to talk about with our voices what we love and why.
[00:05:23] Something I love about podcasting is the intimacy and the nuance, and we’re really taking advantage of that in today’s episode.
WILL: What “we” love? I thought these were “your” best books.
ANNE: Oh, but we’re going to start with your favorites. Come on. I warned you. I asked nicely.
WILL: You did. You did.
ANNE: You all need to know that Will is such a good sport when it comes to podcast things. I mean, I did give you the choice. I didn’t volun-tell you that this was happening. That’s a word we use at team meetings a lot.
WILL: We use that a lot, yeah.
ANNE: But I do appreciate your willingness to share. Because, William, you have legions of fans in our audience. So many people say, “Okay, Will Bogel is my book twin. What is he reading? What is he loving? It’s going straight on my TBR.” So, actually, that’s the place that we are going to start today.
WILL: Well, hello to my legions of fans.
ANNE: We’re going to make you a pin. This year, Will has been cranking out our pinback buttons that we’re selling in our shop, Modern Mrs. Darcy.com. And we’ve been having a lot of fun with that. Maybe we need a Will’s fan club button.
[00:06:23] WILL: Will’s my book twin. We can work on that. You know, I have opportunities, not as many as you do, but a few opportunities to share what I’m reading throughout the year. In the summer, we usually talk on the podcast with the team about their best books of summer. And then, you know, right here at the end of the year, we get together as a team to do the best books of the year. And occasionally, I show up on the podcast as well to talk about… or a bonus episode to talk about what I’m reading. But I don’t read nearly as many books as you do.
So, my favorites list, even if we’re going superlatives, is much shorter than yours, and probably books that people have heard me talk about, including one that I’ve kind of peeked ahead, and I know you’re going to talk about today.
So, I might hold my comments on that one and just say one of my favorite reading experiences for the year was a book I bought… I think I bought this at Shakespeare and Company in Paris, I think.
ANNE: I think you did.
WILL: Yeah.
ANNE: Wait. Not I think. I boldly declare that is the case.
[00:07:23] WILL: I did. Yeah, I did. Okay, I was just confused by my international bookstores. But one of the cardinal rules of buying books while traveling internationally is they got to be really small, right? We have lots of books in our house, only so many things fit in the suitcase. It’s got to be pretty small.
And this is part of the Penguin… I think they call it the Penguin Green series. So, they’re little green covers. But they’re all ecology, environmental topics, that sort of thing. And so I picked up a book called The Last Tree on Easter Island, which is probably best described as an essay. I don’t know that it was more than 60 pages or something like that. I ended up saving it to specifically read in a day. And this fall, I found a day where I thought that would work.
It was a fascinating, both ecological study on trees on Easter Island, the tiny little island way off the coast of Chile, where they have the… I can’t remember the name of the statues, but the big head statues. He does a lot of history about the peoples, about the building of the statues, all that stuff. And there’s plenty of archaeology to suggest that they had nice big trees and sort of what happened. And so he takes that island nation as a microcosm of Earth as our island home.
[00:08:45] So, yeah, it was fascinating both to learn more about how they built those just unbelievable, huge… they’re huge statues. And also just it is so far from anything. I don’t actually know exactly what… the author’s name is Jared Diamond. He’s a professor. I don’t know exactly his specialty. Because he really covers a lot of ground as far as the culture and the history and the ecology and fishing and farming and trade. It was really fascinating.
ANNE: Had you heard of this book before you saw it at Shakespeare and Company?
WILL: Nope.
ANNE: I love it.
WILL: I hadn’t heard of the series either. It definitely… I don’t know, the last tree… I have a tree thing. I’m probably not as-
ANNE: You and Ginger.
WILL: Yeah. Probably not as much as Ginger, but yes, I got a thing for trees. The title really jumped out at me and I just gave it a quick flip through. I also didn’t realize that it’s fairly new. Based on the very spare Penguin packaging and the fact that it was such a short book, I assumed this was sort of a reprint from a fairly old book. And it’s not. It’s fairly recent.
[00:09:54] ANNE: I remember you showing that to me at Shakespeare and Company and just thinking, Whoa, we’re looking around the same bookstore and that just didn’t ping my awareness. So, I always love to see what jumps out at you. And I’m so glad you loved it.
Wait, should I read it?
WILL: No.
ANNE: Have you already told me about the best parts?
WILL: I can tell you. Yeah, I can tell you the good parts. I mean, like I said, it’s only 60 pages and I can summarize what’s fascinating both the peoples there. And like I said, the statues is one of the big things. We saw one of them at the British Museum in London and there’s a big plaque that says, “By the way, they’d like this back and we’re kind of negotiating.” So, I was pretty fascinated by that too when we walked into Shakespeare and Company. I was like, Oh, we just sort of learned something about this at the museum, and now here’s a book kind of telling me more about those people and their culture.
ANNE: I remember that. Okay, what else did you bring today?
WILL: Well, I’m going to save the other one because I know-
ANNE: You’re gonna save them?
WILL: I know you’re going to mention it and so I’d like to just jump into your books.
ANNE: Okay.
WILL: You ready?
ANNE: I am ready.
[00:10:56] WILL: So, you said that this was a way to expound upon, an opportunity to expound upon some of the places you’ve already put out some of your favorites for the year, both in the blog posts, the Team Best Books event. What did you decide to bring to this arena?
ANNE: Ooh, that’s a good question. Really, I wanted to share the things that were best talked about on the podcast. When I’m sharing the best books on the blog, the way that I’ve done it for years now, I’m just writing 100 to 150-word blurbs about the book. And there’s not really room there to share complicated feelings. Or longer stories if I want to communicate something with my tone of voice instead of just my words, that’s really hard to do on the blog.
So, I really thought about what can we discuss here on the podcast together that would be better done with our voices than in print. And so I wanted to talk about some of the nuance. I also wanted to talk about the decision-making process more than I did on the blog at all.
[00:11:55] I mean, on the blog, I said, hey, these are the kinds of things I tend to like. This is what makes a standout reading experience for me. I’m not looking for technically best or most beautifully crafted. I’m talking about experiences that I enjoyed most or that meant the most to me. Because sometimes I read sad books and you don’t necessarily enjoy them even… Who’s the second person you I’m talking to? I might feel weird using the word “enjoy”, but I did deeply appreciate the reading experience and just feel like I’m so glad I read a book.
So, I decided to talk about interesting reading experiences, those kinds of books that I keep thinking about and keep talking about that maybe they weren’t my favorite in a vacuum, but I really love what they brought into my life. I wanted to talk about repeated themes that keep cropping up in my favorites. I wanted to talk about those books that I almost included in my favorites. This is definitely my way of wedging in a few more even though I’ve already had 24 favorites to share. And then I wanted to finish with just a few superlative titles with my voice not in print like on the block.
[00:13:00] WILL: Well, I definitely understand the interesting reading experiences. I think The Last Tree on the Easter Island was exactly that, right? Like, I could do it in one day. It was not like anything else I read. It may not have been the best book I read. Like I said, it was probably a very long journal article in some academic paper, I don’t know. But tell me about your interesting reading experiences.
ANNE: Of the categories we’re talking about today, this is actually my longest list of titles. And it really made me realize I love to read widely. I know what I love. Often I’ll pick up a book, this definitely includes many of my favorites on my favorite print books and favorite audiobooks list, and I’ll think, Oh, this is exactly what I wanted.
But the thing about these interesting reading experiences is that we talk a lot about surprise and delight around here. And to be surprised, it’s got to be off your beaten path. And I realized that so many of these books that were so interesting to me were noteworthy in part because it’s not what I tend to seek out. These are the books that I didn’t know I wanted. And I think that’s a big reason why I keep thinking about them and I keep talking about them.
[00:14:05] WILL: Well, tell me some of these books.
ANNE: All right. Well, I’ve already told you about the first one because I finished it and I was like, “Whoa, this was a little dark for me, but I think you will love it.” And that is The North Line by Matt Riordan. Do you remember talking about this book? This is the deadliest couch one.
WILL: Talking about it? Yeah, I remember reading it. I took you up on it when you suggested it to me.
ANNE: When I described it in the Summer Reading Guide, I called it a gritty and immersive thriller with a wholly unique setting. And this is about a college kid who gets kicked off the lacrosse team. So he loses his scholarship at his fancy East Coast school and he’s got to come up with something like $26,000 quick or he can’t get back to school because now he has to pay cash for his tuition since he got kicked off the team.
There’s an extended discourse on how an actual rich kid would not have gotten kicked off the team for the drug charge that he got busted on. But he did and he’s got to make $26,000. So he goes to Alaska because a friend of a friend can hook him up on a commercial fishing boat, which is really scary, really dangerous.
[00:15:10] And the way they describe life on this boat is terrifying. It’s so dangerous. It’s totally everybody’s out to get theirs. And, oh my gosh, there’s so much cocaine. Like this is not what I usually read, but I really enjoyed it.
At first it felt very Sebastian Junger, like that kind of outdoorsy perfect storm kind of book. But then the man versus man plot came into it. I mean, I’ve read it almost a year ago now and I still can remember some of the exciting, intense, and kind of disgusting scenes.
WILL: Yeah, there were a couple of gross mishaps.
ANNE: Yes, gross mishaps. That sounds about right. The next is This Is What It Sounds Like by Susan Rogers and Ogi Ogas. I just talked about this in December quick lit. This is a book that was recommended to me at WriterFest by a publishing professor there.
I don’t remember what we were talking about where she said, “Oh my gosh, you have to listen to this book.” And she did say “listen”. And she said, you have to do what the book says and listen to every song that they say. Now take a break and go listen to that musical interlude and pay a special attention to how they handle the drum solo.
[00:16:29] The thing I didn’t like about that is it was really hard to walk the dog in the cold with my gloves on and juggle all those things. I definitely couldn’t drive and do it, but it was worth it because it was so interesting.
The thing I really want to tell What Should I Read Next? listeners is that this book felt like the musical equivalent to what we’re trying to do on this podcast. And I’m just going to read a little quote right from the beginning of this book. The authors say that what they’re trying to do in This Is What It Sounds Like is, “By contrasting our divergent responses to music will help you get better acquainted with your own musical identity, especially those hidden aspects of your musical appetites that you may have never recognized before.”
What they’re saying is every listener is different. We all have different tastes, and that’s not exactly something we can help, but it’s something we can definitely lean into.
Where I think this book fell short is they talked a lot about how you have to identify your unique musical profile, and then you can move forward. That was really strong on a couple elements of music, but I feel like it kind of fell apart at the 60% mark. But that’s okay, because it was so interesting, and I learned so much, and I listened to a lot of music that I wouldn’t have otherwise, and I came to appreciate familiar songs that I love in new ways.
[00:17:44] I also thought the insight into what it’s like to produce some of the musicians I listened to was so interesting. I love a good behind-the-scenes take, and this book was really strong in those elements.
WILL: We’ve talked about this a couple of times.
ANNE: Yeah, because I keep bringing it up.
WILL: I know. Do you think I’d like it? Or have you told me enough?
ANNE: Well, I almost got it for you for our holiday book exchange book, and then I decided…
WILL: But then you decided not to.
ANNE: Well, see, that’s because I already… I bought you a book months ago. I saw something on the shelf someplace–
WILL: Oh, okay. Okay, so not a slight on this book. Okay.
ANNE: Not a slight on this book. But I think this is the kind of book that I would want to leave it to you to decide, because really what I’m handing you is a big time commitment. Like, there’s a lot of listening that goes into this book. But I know that we’ve both been exploring new-to-us musicians the past few years, and I thought that you would really enjoy this for that reason and many more. But also, I didn’t want to hand you a 30-hour listening assignment.
[00:18:48] WILL: Wait, what? Okay, thank you. I appreciate the important details there.
ANNE: It’s probably not 30 hours. But I think it’s definitely 20.
WILL: If you added the music, it might be. Okay. All right, thank you for that insight. What’s next?
ANNE: A Song to Drown Rivers by Ann Liang. I don’t read a ton of fantasy, but what I do read, I tend to really enjoy. This is a romantically laced historical fantasy that I talked about in the Fall Book Preview. This was one of our spotlight titles.
It’s based on an ancient Chinese legend, the legend of Xishi. She’s one of the four beauties of ancient China. And she is widely renowned for her beauty. But then the king’s military advisor discovers that, yes, she’s beautiful, but she’s also brave and really smart, and he wants to use her as a weapon to take down the rival kingdom.
[00:19:44] He’s going to send her into that kingdom as a gift. She’s going to be the king’s concubine. And her job is to make this man who she despises, because growing up as a citizen of her nation, she has been raised to just despise these rivals. And she does. The citizens all the way up to the king. And so she doesn’t want to make this man that she thinks is reprehensible fall in love with her, but that’s her job. And then it gets complicated, because of course it does, because it’s that kind of book.
What I liked about this was that it was very plotty and exciting. I just wanted to keep listening. I listened to this one on audio. It was fantastic in this format. But it was also really interesting.
This is based on an ancient Chinese legend. So I expected an examination of the complexities of womanhood and the horrors of war and how love is tricky. But I didn’t expect these meditations on the nature of fame and celebrity and notoriety.
[00:20:43] And so much of what the book was saying, without it all being heavy-handed, felt so applicable to today’s media landscape, political landscape, cultural landscape. I didn’t expect that. I found myself thinking about it a lot. I was absolutely here for it. That made it great for me.
WILL: That’s fascinating that a fantasy like that, based on an ancient story, has all those sort of contemporary elements. Not elements, but that you really feel like resonate with sort of things you would think about now.
ANNE: And I like a book that makes me think about it, and I like a book that surprises me. Not like, whoa, shock! I didn’t know that was coming! But one where the reading experience is not what I… doesn’t at all match my preconceived notion of what I’m getting into.
WILL: Yeah. So you don’t read a lot of fantasy, as you mentioned. Also not a big… well, you’re reading more. But I was going to say you’re not a big Stephen King fan.
ANNE: No, I’m not. But he’s on my list.
WILL: Yeah, I saw his name. So tell us, what Stephen King book did you read that you felt like was worth a mention in your favorite books of the year?
[00:21:47] ANNE: I read Fairytale, which I have recommended this year on the podcast. This goes together in my mind with a book that I found from our Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club Best Books of Summer events. One of our book club members shared Lost Man’s Lane by Scott Carson. And the way she described it, I thought, well, that’s not what I usually read, but I want to read it immediately.
So both these books are realistic fantasy, where they start in worlds that we recognize, and then they go really weird places. The Stephen King especially, it was almost like reading two different novels back to back. The first is very realistic about this good-hearted high school kid who helps out an elderly neighbor when he falls off a ladder and ends up journeying into a hidden land in the whole second half of the book. That’s all I’ll say about that.
[00:22:48] In Lost Man’s Lane, again, it starts with a hint of the eerie, but then it goes to a completely fantasy land. And I have to say, this is me as a reader, I loved the first half of these books more than the second half, but I enjoyed the whole reading experience.
Fairytale felt like a romp. It was funny. I mean, there’s a great dog named Radar. It wasn’t what I expected. It was almost wholesome.
Lost Man’s Lane was really interesting. It was this fantastical adventure story with great characters, especially the minor characters were so well drawn. Who’s read this and knows what I’m talking about when I say the Weller? I loved the Weller.
It was set in Bloomington. You just don’t get a lot of novels set in Bloomington, Indiana. They were both not what I usually pick up, but I was so glad I did. I really enjoyed them. I happened to listen to both on audio. They were great in that format.
[00:23:50] WILL: I’ve heard you talk about this probably because I listen to the podcast as I’m editing it, but I think I had assumed that maybe because it was Stephen King that these were horror, but you’re saying both of these have that kind of fantasy second half?
ANNE: I mean, I think they both have horror elements. Stephen King has some terrifying, fantastical, horrific characters. But I’m not a big horror reader-
WILL: No.
ANNE: …and these weren’t scary to me. And while they were a little gruesome in brief parts, I wouldn’t go so far as to say they were gory.
WILL: I think for people who know how maybe squeamish you might be, I think that’s helpful.
ANNE: I hope so. All right. Change of pace.
WILL: Yes.
ANNE: I also loved Sipsworth by Simon Van Booy. I love a short and sweet… this was a five-something-hour audiobook. It’s gentle. It’s touching. I love the characters. It’s sweet. Again, wholesome, if that word doesn’t turn people off.
[00:24:56] I went to the author talk just like on an impulse. I saw the sign at my local bookstore that said Simon Van Booy’s in town, and I thought, “I don’t have plans on this Tuesday evening. I should go.” And when he was describing his story, he said that the theme he keeps coming back to in his work, the story he keeps telling, and I talked about this at WriterFest, if you heard this on the audio, is a group of disparate characters who are lonely, who feel cut off from life, who find each other, find community and find a new purpose in living.
And that’s what happens here. There’s an 83-year-old woman who comes back to life because of a little mouse she adopts. And you quickly find that there is more to 83-year-old Helen than meets the eye. You know, she’s had sadness in her life, but she’s also had this huge professional success. The way that comes into the story, and the way that she finds herself again, and the way that the reader discovers who she is, it’s just so… it’s just wonderful.
[00:26:01] Lots of readers really love this because it explores heavy and difficult topics and also is a story of community and second chances and redemption.
Now can we talk about boxing?
WILL: Boxing? Yes.
ANNE: I happen to read a couple books with boxing connections this year, including the Blue Sisters by Coco Mellors, which I loved and have almost put on my favorites list several times. It was in the Fall Book Preview, not Summer Reading Guide.
One of the four sisters in that book was a boxer, and I just didn’t see that coming. Maybe, though, that’s the reason I was willing to take a chance on Headshot by Rita Bullwinkel, which is little. I mean, definitely a thimble full of weird was a theme for me this year.
But the story takes place at and is structured in the form of a weekend boxing tournament with some of the nation’s elite junior female boxers. It’s at some rinky-dink arena in Reno. The book opens with the tournament bracket, and each chapter is a literal blow-by-blow account of every match in the book from that boxer’s perspective. It was unlike anything else that I’ve read in ages, and I loved it for that.
[00:27:13] WILL: I remember you mentioning this, but that structure just… yeah, that sounds very surprising. It made me think, like, how’d you come up with this, Rita Bullwinkel? And I really like it when an author makes me ask that.
Finally, I wanted to talk about Colored Television by Danzy Senna. This was interesting in many ways. Oh, it was snarky and wry and funny and darkly comic, and… I really liked both the protagonist. I mean, I really liked the author. She seems like a lot of fun and really, really smart.
But I wanted to say how I started this book something like four times in print, and it just didn’t take. Initially, the publication date was scheduled to be summer, so it was on my radar for summer reading, but then it got pushed back to September. And so I tried it for summer, and then I tried it again for fall. And I was just telling you, like, I’m not even sure why I kept coming back to it. I think because I liked the description of what the book was.
[00:28:13] It’s about a novelist in L.A. who’s like, you know what? Writing books is freaking hard, and it doesn’t pay anything, and I’m living in this really expensive city with a husband who’s a painter. He’s not exactly raking it in, and we have two kids, and they are expensive, and we don’t want to move to a different town. We don’t want to move to the exurbs. Like, we gotta make some money.
And she’s inspired by her friend Brent who sold out, that’s the phrase used in the book, and became a screenwriter with daytime hours, free coffee and lunches, and a much better paycheck. So she aspires to sell out. It’s just a comedy of errors. She lies to a lot of people. She weaves a tangled web for herself, and you know it’s gonna, like, all fall apart for her. You’re just not sure how and why. But there are some scenes in this book that were funny and insightful that I still think about all the time many months later.
WILL: That sounds delightful. So those were interesting reading experiences. You also mentioned that you had some books that sort of fill into themes for the year. You know, themes besides boxing.
[00:29:17] ANNE: Yes. Okay, they are literary. I love a book that is a literary family drama romance, or in this case, a literary family saga mystery like Liz Moore’s The God of the Woods. Family saga, missing persons tale, 1970s summer camp stories, you’ve got that historical element. William, you want to jump in here?
WILL: Yeah, this actually was the book that I was saying that I’d come back to. This was probably my best book of the year. And I liked the and also. I almost wondered if we would get a series out of the female detective. She was so well-written and had this great backstory. I also like a family saga. That’s definitely more your jam than mine, but I enjoyed that part. But the mystery, that totally appealed to me as well.
ANNE: A character-driven mystery, but also compulsively readable literary. I love Liz Moore. I would love to read that series you just hinted at, but also I just kind of want to read whatever she decides she wants to write for me.
[00:30:26] WILL: I understand that you. After I finished this and I was kind of wondering what to read next. You mentioned that she’s just got a great backlist and I read The Unseen World, which is a totally different book. But there was a really neat pairing to kind of catch her too in a row there. I think I read them back to back, I think. Yeah, really different, but also gave me a real good peek into kind of what Liz Moore can do.
ANNE: It brought me great joy that you enjoyed that so much. Not surprised, but delighted. Also for the literary and so many books coming in 2025, including several I adored and can’t wait to tell you about come Spring Book Preview, I read them in 2024, so they’re my best books of the year, but I’m not ready to talk about them yet.
WILL: You’re not going to just… that’s quite a tease.
ANNE: But historical literary mystery, romance, melodrama, like I could have put them in any category in the Spring Book Preview. I’m thinking of one book in particular that’s probably my favorite of the bunch, but that’s true for maybe four different titles where they’re hard to categorize, but so easy to read in the sense that like, I just couldn’t wait to find out what happened next. And also thought that they were really well-crafted. I love both.
[00:31:42] WILL: Well, I love the literary and… So that was great. What was the next thing you mentioned? The heavy and light?
ANNE: Books that combine the heavy and the light.
WILL: Yeah. I think I’ve read some of these too.
ANNE: Did you read The Wedding People by Alison Espach?
WILL: I did.
ANNE: What did you think?
WILL: It was heavy. Oh, I loved it. It was great. It was heavy. I mean, if I can talk about this for you, it was heavy in the… just the plot, the framing, the entire concept, right? But it was surprising and delightful and a really fresh and… I think the character just had this sort of fresh and freeing outlook. Do we want to sort of spill the plot device?
ANNE: No. But we do want to say that the character had reached the point where she’s like, I don’t care what you think of me. I’m just going to say what I think and feel what I feel and like, let the chips fall where they may. That often made me laugh out loud.
[00:32:43] WILL: Yeah. It led to a lot of humor and surprise, but also, gave her sort of fresh eyes to, while she’s judging other people, think about her own life.
ANNE: Yeah. And it’s really grim in parts. Like she has been through some hard stuff and she’s letting us in on what happened, but also it’s so compassionate and wise and… okay, fun fact. When I first drafted this for the Summer Reading Guide, I was thinking about how I read in bed every night. Usually, fiction before I go to sleep. It’s part of my routine. Although lately it’s been like 15 minutes. I got to really up that number so I can read more books for summer.
But my first blurb said I was like shaking the bed reading the book. And you were like, “No, don’t say that.” Maybe the couch. You’re shaking the couch, which was also true.
WILL: This is why we do this podcast episode, because you wouldn’t write that in a blurb and it just goes in the Summer Reading Guide PDF and people are like, “What is she talking about?” But you can tell a story here on the podcast.
[00:33:43] ANNE: But seriously, it was so funny that I was like physically… it was like an ab workout.
WILL: It was really funny. Really funny.
ANNE: Another book I loved on that line, which was so sad — these characters had been through hard things. They are not in good places. And it had so much grammar geek humor — is You Are Here by David Nicholls. This is a quiet love story about two lonely people falling in love as they trek through the English countryside. So great scenery, strong sense of place. He’s a geography teacher. She’s a copy editor. She’s editing erotica, which just leads to so many grammar jokes and writing jokes.
WILL: I didn’t realize that’s what she was editing.
ANNE: Oh my gosh. It’s so funny. You might like this.
WILL: Really? I remember you really… really liked this?
ANNE: It would like scratch your travel itch. It’s not long.
WILL: Yeah. There was a lot, when you talked about it, that I thought I would like, and then we started watching One Day and I’m like, I don’t know if I care about David Nicholls.
[00:34:41] ANNE: Well, that one is melodrama and this one is much more subdued.
WILL: And the show was very melodramatic.
ANNE: Yeah. We didn’t finish the show.
WILL: Yeah. Okay. Maybe I’ll give it a try.
ANNE: Yeah. And also it’s about two people finding their person. And it’s sweet like that.
WILL: And that is sweet. Yeah.
ANNE: Okay. I also love The Sequel by Jean Hanff Korelitz, which is it fair to call this heavy and light? Like maybe because they’re talking about crimes, murder, plagiarism. Is there poison?
WILL: There’s poison?
ANNE: But it’s not real life. This is about watching a Tom Ripley-like character behave very, very, very badly. And the question is, is she kind of get what’s coming to her? I mean, probably because you think it’s that kind of book. But this was so fun and funny in that Korelitz clearly is just having a ball, like skewering the publishing industry. It’s a total send up with fawning fans, just like obsequious publicists. There are these writing seminars that are just expensive tax write-offs. There are authors who are so inflated by their own huge egos. They can barely function. Lots of Easter eggs for readers. Oh, it’s so fun.
[00:35:57] I’m sorry to say… no, I’m not sorry to say, read the plot and then read the sequel, read them back to back. I think the sequel is even better, but the plot’s a lot of fun. The point is not to guess what happens. The point is to watch Korelitz unspool her story and show how people behaving badly are totally going to get what’s coming to them.
WILL: Yeah. I was wondering if you were about to say read the plot first. You didn’t actually say that.
ANNE: You don’t have to, but I would… I think you’ll enjoy the sequel more if you do. I mean-
WILL: If you do. Okay.
ANNE: Korelitz gives you enough information in the text of the sequel to fill in what you need to know to read the sequel as a standalone. But you’re going to have a richer experience if you read the plot first. So, you know, you can decide how you want to spend your reading hours.
WILL: Those were people behaving badly.
ANNE: Yeah. Funny, funny, funny.
WILL: Funny, yes, specifically the last one there with the sequel. But let’s move to something you called wistful.
[00:36:56] ANNE: Oh, now we’re going to take a hard turn. I know everybody listening knows what it’s like to read the right book at the right time, whether that is carefully planned or just purely coincidental. But I happened to read these wistful meditations on life and love and change and loss right when my mom was sick and then suddenly died like right at the turn of the year. And they were the right books for the right time for me.
They were so sad, but also wistful and about grief, but also celebrating how life goes on. I think I’m just going to rattle them off for you. Loved and Missed by Susie Boyt. This is a slim British novel. Shout out to Andrea at Browser’s Bookshop who recommended this in her newsletter. I had seen it around, but it was her recommendations that made me think, “Yes, I’m going to read that now.”
It was short and packed such an emotional wallop. I immediately thought I want to read everything Susie Boyt has ever written, and I haven’t done that yet. But one of the things I like about these best books reflections is it reminds me of moments like that. So, Susie Boyt is going on my list.
[00:38:06] Sandwich by Catherine Newman is a book that I’ve talked about a lot in a lot of places. The protagonist’s meditation on having college-age and young adult children and also aging parents just really spoke to where I was right now. Also, it unfolds over the course of one week in a too-small Cape Cod vacation home. And I realized that Cape Cod was practically a theme in my reading life this year. I read at least three books out there, and I really enjoyed those. I’ve never been there. Only the pages of fiction and memoir, but I really enjoyed that.
Then Same As It Ever Was by Claire Lombardo. I have been waiting for this one for a long time because it was announced several years ago under a different title, actually. But this was another book that featured a midlife reckoning in which the protagonist who’s in her 50s. She has an adult child, a college-age child. She bumps into someone she hasn’t seen in years at the grocery store, and it sends her on this whole… really it’s a midlife reckoning.
[00:39:05] I really enjoyed this: here’s a woman in midlife reflecting on her relationship with her mother, reflecting on her relationship with her kids, reflecting on the state her marriage is in. Reading a bunch of books like that back to back would be bad for my soul. But in small doses, I love an emotionally resonant novel like this.
Oh, and I have one more. And also, maybe a fun announcement for some people. How to Read a Book by Monica Wood was another poignant main novel, which I think she does so well. Speaking of Simon Van Booy, this one also centers three lonely people disconnected from life, disconnected from any sort of community. Two are in their 60s, one is maybe 20, 21. Though they are connected by a terrible tragedy, the worst reason to bring people together, they end up forming this life-giving community.
[00:40:00] Plus, one of the characters who goes by Bookie to some characters in the novel, she leads a book club at the local women’s prison. Her reflections on discussing books with these women will add a ton of titles to your reading list but is also so wonderful for lovers of books and reading.
I want to say Monica Wood is going to be our very first repeat Modern Mrs. Darcy book club author. She’s going to join us in March. We’re going to read this book, How to Read a Book Together. We’re going to pair it with the Flight pick Spoon River Anthology, which features prominently in this book.
It’s so good. Redemption, second chances, the power of books, and… I love Monica Wood. I can’t wait to talk about this book with her.
WILL: Well, she joined us in book club a very long time ago at this point.
ANNE: She didn’t though. You’re right. So we read The One in a Million Boy that very first summer of Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club in 2016. I can’t believe we’re coming up on 10 years.
[00:41:04] WILL: And did you not talk to her?
ANNE: No, she was unable to join us in person, but was kind enough to do a written Q&A. So we got to share some of her reflections and answers to our specific questions. But I’m so excited that she’s going to join us on Zoom. She’s the first author that we will have read two books from, and just a great one to inaugurate that repeat appearance.
Can I share some of the books I almost included in my best of list?
WILL: If you really need to cram in more books. We can do some almost included books. Yes.
ANNE: I do. The Interestings by Meg Wolitzer, which Ginger raved about this so much. It’s not that she talks me into it exactly. She just nudged me and nudged me and nudged me and nudged me until I fell over into it headfirst.
But this is a summer camp book. And our theme for the Summer Reading Guide this year was summer camp. So, of course, I had to enjoy it. And what I really found was, oh my gosh, this is the kind of reflective story, family saga, friends over decades, literary novel that I love. Like, why didn’t anybody tell me? And Ginger was like, Anne, what do you think I’ve been saying all these years? But I love The Interestings.
[00:42:15] I loved Long Island by Colm Tóibín, a wistful literary standalone set in the 1970s. I talked about this one with Susan Meissner in our wonderful podcast episode about quiet books. This is beautifully written, oh so discussable. The look, somebody shoots somebody else across the town square is like high drama in this book. And I think Colm Tóibín really makes you feel it. It’s got a love triangle.
Small Rain by Garth Greenwell was a right book at the right time for me. I flipped back and forth between the audio read by the author, which was wonderful, and the Kindle so I could finish it in one day. Seriously, when I sat down to begin it, this is the story of a man who experiences a sudden medical crisis, and it was inspired by Greenwell’s own personal experience. He also experienced a sudden medical crisis in the summer of 2020.
And he’s not the protagonist in the book. This is fiction, but he really drew on his experience. I happened to read this at the same time our friend was dealing with tremendous pain in his illness and had just gotten very bad news from his physicians. And it felt like the right book at the right time. I read it in a day. I loved it.
[00:43:30] And then I have a romance novel that I loved that was a spotlight title in the Fall Book Preview. My eyes just skimmed right over this when I was putting together my favorites list. But One on One by Jamie Harrow is a romance debut set in the world of college basketball.
This is not the book that I knew to ask for. I’m not even sure how or why. I think it just sounded good because I didn’t know anybody who’d read this. She’s a debut author. But I loved this. This was just pure escapist delight for me.
There are some heavy topics in this book, but it’s a workplace rivals to lovers romance, lots of banter, lots of interesting professional stuff. I used to play basketball, not in college. I wasn’t good enough for that. But you don’t need to care about sports ball to enjoy this book, I don’t think.
WILL: Okay. Don’t need to care about sports ball.
ANNE: And then can I share just a few best to finish?
WILL: So, those are some additional titles. Do you want to tell us what everybody’s really come here for? The best of the best books? Is that the way to put this?
[00:44:35] ANNE: Is that what I’m supposed to share? The best of the best? No, I absolutely do not. How dare you?
WILL: Superlatives. Superlatives are hard. Okay. So, yes, please, we won’t call them the best. Some bests to finish us out that you didn’t get to put into any of the previous categories. What were some of the best books you read that just didn’t align exactly with those other categories?
ANNE: All right. I’m being a little sneaky. I included Charmaine Wilkerson’s Black Cake on my best audiobooks list, because I love a family drama, a sibling story, buried secrets from the past. It was calling my name on all those levels.
But I also loved Good Dirt, which comes out the end of January 2025. But I get to talk about it now, because it’s our February Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club selection, so you’re going to have to hear about it sometime. Why not now?
[00:45:31] WILL: I have heard you talk about both these books. I didn’t realize that Good Dirt was not yet, since you’ve read them both. I think you read them back to back, right? Pretty close?
ANNE: I did, because I read Good Dirt when I was prepping for Spring Book Preview, and I loved it. And I thought, “I’ve had Black Cake on my shelf for actual years. What am I waiting for?” Except I didn’t read the print book. I thought, I bet this is going to be amazing on audio. So I went that route, and it totally was.
I mean, I think it’d be great in print, but I really enjoyed the audiobook experience. But in both books, she’s exploring grief and trauma, social justice issues, tragedy through the lens of one family, and a precious heirloom, if you can call a traditional Black Cake recipe an heirloom.
In Good Dirt, the tangible object linking the contemporary family to a historical past is a beautiful, heavy, huge, valuable pottery jar made by their relative when that person was an enslaved artisan in South Carolina in the 19th century.
[00:46:39] So in the opening pages, the 29-year-old protagonist, she’s the daughter of an affluent Black New England family. She suffers a painful and public romantic betrayal just right in the opening pages. And there’s something about the way that Charmaine Wilkerson introduced her story and her characters where I was reading the eGalley, and I picked it up, and I got to about page four, and something in me was like, “Ah, I found something good. This is going to be good company for the next 400 pages.” And I love when that happens.
WILL: Really?
ANNE: Yeah.
WILL: That quick?
ANNE: Yeah. So something terrible happens. And you also know that she suffered a terrible tragedy, witnessed something horrible when she was quite young, when she was nine or ten, and that was newsworthy, just notorious where she grew up. And she’s always been the girl that thing happened to. She’s never been able… she doesn’t feel like to live her own life or to be herself.
[00:47:38] She’s always known as that girl that endured that thing. And she really loved this guy for seeing her as more than that, except then it seemed like he didn’t. So she flees to France to heal, but she can’t escape this pull she’s feeling at this time in her life to untangle past events, both the ones that just happened.
She still hasn’t answered questions from what happened 20 years ago when that terrible thing happened. So we go back and forth in time, and then we go way back in time, back to the artisan who made the jar. I love this. I couldn’t wait to find out what happened to Ebby and her ancestors. Great story, great reading experience.
And then my next one, this might sound silly because I know that lots of people were looking forward to Ina Garten’s memoir. It was definitely a big book of fall. And my attitude toward it was like, maybe I’ll read it, maybe I won’t, we’ll see. But then I downloaded the audiobook on a whim and I loved it.
Specifically, I know that I am well known for loving an interesting peek behind the scenes. That was just delightful. I was interested in hearing how she obtained and then grew her business.
[00:48:47] And I’d heard the story. She was writing budgets at the White House and she saw an ad in the newspaper. I knew that. But to hear her talk about it through her perspective and share not just the plucky like, Oh, I did this on a whim and it all worked out, but hearing how she thought about that decision and what happened next.
I think as someone who has a business that’s not very well understood, I really enjoyed the peek behind the curtain of how she thought about running the store, what she was seeking to do, what challenges she found interesting, and what she found just untenable, how she knew it was time to move on.
And then, William, I told you that you didn’t think you wanted to be Ina Garten, but she talks about this one glorious summer where she and Jeffrey got to camp in Europe for four months and live there on $5 a day and experience all these wonderful things. I really enjoyed these memories from long ago now she shared about that time.
WILL: Yeah, that was a long time ago. So, $5 a day is a little bit of a stretch now.
[00:49:48] ANNE: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s never happening for you and me. But vicariously, I got to go along with Ina.
WILL: Because we were traveling, and I was desperate to find something on Kindle that I could take with me pretty easily, I downloaded this in case I finished my other very short novella that I was reading on Kindle. And yeah, her voice is great. I’ve only barely just started it, but her voice is very much the same as it is on the show. Very warm, very welcoming, and just real personable. You don’t really get the feeling that she’s a character on TV, you know?
ANNE: I didn’t know you were reading this.
WILL: Oh, yeah. Just started.
ANNE: That’s fun. Oh, and she talks about behind the scenes of her TV show, and she talks about great working relationships and some that were challenging. I’ve only watched maybe 20 minutes of one episode ever when we were on vacation someplace with cable.
WILL: I find this so hard to believe, really.
ANNE: Yeah.
WILL: Because the kids used to watch it when we’d go…
ANNE: I was probably reading on the balcony.
WILL: You were probably reading. But they’d be like, Yo, Food Network, we’re watching TV. And yeah, we watched all kinds of TV shows.
[00:50:55] ANNE: Yeah. I like Ina. I have some of her cookbooks. I love how her recipes work, but I’m definitely not a super fan, which is why I was on the fence about like, you know, I could take this or leave it. But from the second I started listening, I was like, Oh, this is such a good place to be.
I also loved how she talked about why she was writing the memoir and why she’s writing another book next. She talks about what that is in the end of the book. I didn’t know I would be so interested in hearing her talk through her career, like the unexpected path, the milestones, good and bad, and also what she is pursuing now to stay interested and engaged. I just thought it was really interesting in ways I knew to expect in the pages and also so many I just really didn’t.
WILL: Yeah, that sounds interesting. I’m looking forward to picking it back up.
ANNE: And finally, I love This Motherless Land. Nikki Mae has been on the podcast. Go listen to that episode. But I’m a sucker for a Jane Austen adaptation, and yet I’m so often so disappointed. But this retelling of Mansfield Park surpassed all my expectations.
[00:52:03] It’s a story of how important first cousins are in each other’s life. And I didn’t know that was a story I was longing to read. I really enjoy that thing about a retelling where I’m constantly tracking the original versus what the author is doing with it now. That’s got like almost a crossword puzzle kind of satisfaction to me. But I just love this. Coming of age, scathing social critique, a love story about a first cousin relationship. Some plot twist that made me go, Whoa, I can’t believe that just happened.
And I finished it. And then I couldn’t wait to dive into Mansfield Park, which I read immediately. And it was such an enjoyable twofer. I loved it. Also, I want to be president of the Nikki Mae fan club. I loved her and talking with her as a person. I can’t wait to see what she writes next.
WILL: Wow. That’s high praise.
ANNE: High praise. Here’s the good and bad of an episode like this. That’s a lot of titles.
WILL: That was a lot of titles.
[00:53:01] ANNE: Readers, I just dumped a lot of titles on you. I want more titles. But thank you.
WILL: We will put them all on the website. So, now you have a third best list. We’ve got the two blog posts, Your Best Books of 2024 and Your Best Audiobooks of 2024. And then we will have a post up with this with all the titles that we talked about today.
ANNE: Yes, we will.
WILL: Thanks for sharing those with us.
ANNE: Yeah. Well, thank you, readers, for letting me share all my favorites. And thank you, William, for talking about Best Books with me again and for bringing some of yours.
WILL: Happy to.
ANNE: Aww, this has been a pleasure.
Readers, I hope you enjoyed hearing about some of my favorite reads from the past year. We would love to know the books you loved in 2024. You can always join that conversation at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com. Like Will said, we’ve included the full list of titles talked about today on our show notes page there for this episode. And you can comment there with your favorites.
[00:54:04] Keep up with our podcast and special events like our coming Spring Book Preview by signing up for our email newsletter. Go to whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/newsletter. We keep it short and sweet. We share what’s happening in What Should I Read Next? HQ. We make sure you know about new episodes. Sign up there.
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WILL: Can I do this part?
ANNE: Yeah.
WILL: Thanks to the people who made this episode happen. What Should I Read Next? is created each week by me, Will Bogel, Holly Wilkoszewski, and Studio D Podcast Productions, and you, Anne. Thanks for talking all things books and reading with us for the past eight years.
ANNE: Oh my gosh, eight years
WILL: Eight years.
ANNE: January 12th, 2016. Eight years.
WILL: Readers, that is it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening.
ANNE: And as Rainer Maria Rilke said, “Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading.” Happy New Year. Happy reading, everyone.